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	<title>Community Blog: Ralph Shnelvar</title>
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	<link>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com</link>
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		<title>Teenagers, sleep, and the market</title>
		<link>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2010/03/04/teenagers-sleep-and-the-market/</link>
		<comments>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2010/03/04/teenagers-sleep-and-the-market/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 11:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Shnelvar</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Libertarianism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Teenagers sleep]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/?p=30</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And thank you, George Will, for correctly pointing out that kids don't need (or deserve) constant praise.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On 2010-03-04, yaakovwatkins commented in <a href="http://www.dailycamera.com/opinion-columnists/ci_14506978#ixzz0hCvIDF3p">http://www.dailycamera.com/opinion-columnists/ci_14506978#ixzz0hCvIDF3p</a></p>
<p><span><em>Questions. It is odd to talk about how sleepy  someone is if we don&#8217;t talk about when they went to sleep, only when  they get up.</em></span></p>
<p>I disagree. Certainly, the number of sleep  hours is important but so is WHEN those hours are slept.</p>
<p>Check  the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders ( DSM-IVTR) or  this article:<br />
<a href="http://www.minddisorders.com/Br-Del/Circadian-rhy...%3C/a%3E" target="_blank">http://www.minddisorders.com/Br-Del/Circadian-rhy&#8230;</a></p>
<p>- &#8211; -</p>
<p>Let me quote from the Libertarian Karl Marx&#8217;s  1875 <em>Critique of the Gotha Programme (Part I(</em>: From each  according to his ability, to each according to his need or needs. (And,  no, Karl Marx was not a libertarian. It&#8217;s a joke)</p>
<p>What Marx  missed was that it is the market that accommodates needs and not the  Dictatorship of the Proletariat (uh, dictatorship of the political  class).</p>
<p>In a market economy, parents and children would  determine the starting time of classes. At least parents and children  would get a chance to select from several choices.</p>
<p>In our  current politically driven system, the parents and kids have almost no  choice. Their &#8220;choice&#8221; is to vote or to pay twice for their kid&#8217;s  education. Their needs and desires are not being met.</p>
<p>Voting is  horridly inefficient. It&#8217;s like a supermarket deciding what to carry by  majority vote of its customers.</p>
<p>- &#8211; - -</p>
<p>And thank  you, George Will, for correctly pointing out that kids don&#8217;t need (or  deserve) constant praise.</p>
<p>Oh! How horrible. Actually taking  some kids to task for failing or presenting bad arguments. It will send  so many of them to mental health workers that the Great (bankrupt) Society will  have to pay for.</p>
<p>Better to let them jump rope without ropes.</p>
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		<title>Minimum Wage</title>
		<link>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/12/25/minimum-wage/</link>
		<comments>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/12/25/minimum-wage/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 08:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Shnelvar</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/12/25/minimum-wage/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I urge the Gentle reader to read http://www.dailycamera.com/guestopinion/ci_14059029
A poster, btm1001, wrote:

&#8220;And since the new minimum wage means employers will hire the most skilled applicants first, teens find they are left out in the cold.&#8221;
So prior to the new minimum wage, employers hired the least skilled applicants first?
It&#8217;s the economy stupid! In ALL recessions, teenager unemployment [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I urge the Gentle reader to read http://www.dailycamera.com/guestopinion/ci_14059029</p>
<p>A poster, btm1001, wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8220;And since the new minimum wage means employers will hire the most skilled applicants first, teens find they are left out in the cold.&#8221;</p>
<p>So prior to the new minimum wage, employers hired the least skilled applicants first?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the economy stupid! In ALL recessions, teenager unemployment increases faster than general population.</p>
<p>If anything, the increase in minimum wage helped teenagers more than the general population, as 19.9% of teenagers are in minimum wage jobs, compared to only 1.1% of the general population.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s amazing how the story changes when you use actual historical study, statistical analysis, and FACTS as opposed to lies.<br />
http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/tee&#8230;
</p></blockquote>
<p>I responded as follows:</p>
<p>I urge the Gentle Reader to look at the graph in <a href="http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/teenage_jobs_and_the_raise_in_the_minimum_wage/" target="_blank">http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/tee&#8230;</a> carefully.  </p>
<p>In previous recessions the teen unemployment rate went down about 10%.  In this recession it went down about 33%.  </p>
<p>But that hardly tells the whole story.  Teen UNemployment has been going UP because (in my opinion) of the increases in  the minimum wage outside of the recession.  </p>
<p>- &#8211; - &#8211; - &#8211;  </p>
<p>btm100: <i>So prior to the new minimum wage, employers hired the least skilled applicants first?</i>  </p>
<p>No, employers hired the best fit for their needs.  That&#8217;s usually a spread of skilled and non-skilled workers.  </p>
<p>But if you raise the minimum wage, employers will often substitute automation and skilled workers for unskilled workers.  </p>
<p>For instance, if you are, say, a home builder and you normally hired ditch diggers at $5/hr and now the minimum wage is $10, it is very likely that you will substitute ten ditch diggers for a $15/hr heavy equipment operator and some heavy equipment.  </p>
<p>Or the local hamburger joint will install an automated hamburger griller instead of a teenage hamburger flipper.  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the bottom line:<br />
Raising the minimum wage will screw people out of jobs.  SOME people (e.g. some ditch digger who can&#8217;t be substituted out) will be better off &#8230; but many other unseen and desperate people will be out of a job and not even know why they are out of a job.  </p>
<p>- &#8211; - &#8211;  </p>
<p>It would be awfully nice if government could wave a wand and magically create wealth. </p>
<p>It can&#8217;t.  It can only distort the economy by fiat and force.   </p>
<p>Sadly, it is always able to point at successes &#8220;Hey, that $15/hour heavy equipment operator has a job!&#8221; but it does not and cannot point to the want ad for ditch diggers or entry level hamburger flippers that never happened. </p>
<p>Ralph Shnelvar<br />
Chair<br />
Libertarian Party of Boulder County</p>
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		<title>The odds of getting AIDS</title>
		<link>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/12/17/the-odds-of-getting-aids/</link>
		<comments>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/12/17/the-odds-of-getting-aids/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Shnelvar</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[AIDS]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/12/17/the-odds-of-getting-aids/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let me state the obvious: AIDS is a tragedy.  Millions of people a year die from this disease.
Let me state the obvious: people die in car accidents and motorcycle accidents.  People die skiing, too.
When someone dies unexpectedly, it is a loss to their loved ones. Nearly all who are reading this have experienced [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me state the obvious: AIDS is a tragedy.  Millions of people a year die from this disease.</p>
<p>Let me state the obvious: people die in car accidents and motorcycle accidents.  People die skiing, too.</p>
<p>When someone dies unexpectedly, it is a loss to their loved ones. Nearly all who are reading this have experienced the horrid feeling of such a loss. </p>
<p>Let me state the obvious yet again: Every one of us participates in risky behavior all the time. Getting out of bed in the morning is risky. Apparently 600 Americans die each year falling out of bed. </p>
<p>Go look it up.</p>
<p>Associated with each and every one of our 24-hour-per-day activities is a risk of dying.</p>
<p>So, let me state the obvious again: people have sex. Some people even have standard heterosexual intercourse with strangers. </p>
<p>Go look it up.</p>
<p>The question that should immediately pop into your mind is “What are the odds of dying from AIDS because of a single unprotected &#8216;normal&#8217; heterosexual encounter compared to, say, taking a single airplane flight?” </p>
<p>The politically incorrect answer is: Roughly the same.  About one in 5,000,000.</p>
<p>Go look it up.</p>
<p>The odds of you being killed in a car accident each year is about 1:5000.  Basically, you are at greater risk of dying driving to work than participating in an activity that a family newspaper only hints at.</p>
<p>Having said all that, there is a kind of sexual behavior that can dramatically increase the risk of contracting AIDS from nearly nonexistent to really really risky. Riskier, in fact, than the odds of dying base jumping (1 in 2600 jumps). You will have to look up what this fairly common naughty sexual activity is.</p>
<p>It is participating in this fairly common activity that causes the MAC AIDS fund to say that AIDS is the No. 1 killer of women under 35 in the U.S. The flipside to that statistic is that of the 2,426,264 deaths in 2006 in the US, 12,113 died from HIV. See National Vital Statistics Reports, Volume 57, Number 14.</p>
<p>So the MAC AIDS fund manages to cherry-pick the data to make this tragic disease appear to be even more tragic. I put this tragedy into context.</p>
<p>So why is it that a paean to AIDS victims, the play Rent, has the seventh longest run on Broadway and is mentioned fondly in Erika Stutzman’s December 2nd editorial in the Daily Camera?</p>
<p>I suspect that the reason is that the above-mentioned naughty behavior is a favorite of homosexual men. Homosexual men have been discriminated in our culture since … forever.</p>
<p>So in liberal New York with its heavy concentration of homosexual men and risky homosexual behavior, AIDS and death from AIDS is yet one more tragic burden that an already-oppressed group bears; a burden inflicted by nature, herself.</p>
<p>Since a large segment of our society would prefer that we be Puritan in our thoughts, words, and deeds, it is no wonder that HIV victims are discriminated against. </p>
<p>Yes, we could (almost) all avoid getting HIV if we did not participate in any sexual behavior. To me, that&#8217;s not a life I want to live.</p>
<p>What AIDS/HIV/sex education should teach is “If you do this then there is a chance you will get a disease that will kill you. Here are the odds.” </p>
<p>Erika wrote in that editorial, &#8220;… we`ve heard first-hand anecdotes from college-aged students who are less concerned about it than their predecessors.&#8221; To which I say, &#8220;Good. They have balanced the hysteria against the reality and are deciding that, yes, maybe life is actually worth living without the constant drumbeat of guilt.&#8221;</p>
<p>We can reduce the odds of dying by participating in less risky behavior. We can reduce the odds of dying from AIDS from very low to nearly zero; but is it worth doing that?</p>
<p>What I write, above, is politically incorrect. I have already been excoriated elsewhere for simply reporting what the odds of contracting AIDS are.</p>
<p>Life is short.  We are all going to die.  Some of us will die horrible and tragic deaths due to things we haven&#8217;t done wrong. Some of us will die of improbable things because of what we have done wrong. Some of us will die base jumping.</p>
<p>Many of us will die because we spent too much time writing opinion pieces rather than enjoying the breathtaking joy of spending quality time with the opposite sex.</p>
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		<title>On terrorizing slaves</title>
		<link>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/09/15/on-terrorizing-slaves/</link>
		<comments>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/09/15/on-terrorizing-slaves/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Shnelvar</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/09/15/on-terrorizing-slaves/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In response to a letter published in the LTE of the Camera on 2009-09-15.
PAUL DOUGAN : &#8220;And if you want to stop further Nat Turners, being harsher with the enslaved won`t help. You need to abolish slavery.&#8221;
There are two solutions to the problem. More terror or freedom.
The Roman Empire had Spartacus. He terrorized far far [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to a letter published in the LTE of the Camera on 2009-09-15.</p>
<p>PAUL DOUGAN : &#8220;And if you want to stop further Nat Turners, being harsher with the enslaved won`t help. You need to abolish slavery.&#8221;</p>
<p>There are two solutions to the problem. More terror or freedom.</p>
<p>The Roman Empire had Spartacus. He terrorized far far more than Nat Turner. The Roman Empire crushed his rebellion and further terrorized the slaves. It was a successful strategy of terror that worked for five hundred years. So, yes, being harsher does help.</p>
<p>Continuing to crush the slaves cost the Roman Empire dearly. Instead of having people who contributed to their society willingly, the Romans had to allocate vast resources to suppress people&#8217;s very intense desire to be free. Is it any wonder that Spartacus managed to raise an army of 100,000 slaves; many of them well-trained gladiators (as Spartacus was)?</p>
<p>The enslavement of all those people was part of a &#8220;Bread and Circuses&#8221; culture that celebrated violence and entitlement. Did the Roman Empire fall when Spartacus failed. No. Rome fell into disarray five hundred years later, which, in turn, led to the Dark Ages.</p>
<p>Our politicians have learned well from the Romans: Give them bread, wine, and circuses (i.e. free stuff) and stay in power.</p>
<p>Would Rome have been far better off not having slaves and a Bread and Circuses (Welfare and Entertainment) culture? This Libertarian thinks so.</p>
<p>This Libertarian knows in his gut that it would be so.</p>
<p>Ralph Shnelvar<br />
Chair<br />
Libertarian Party of Boulder County </p>
<p><i>Lessons not learned</p>
<p>Apparently, we still don`t grasp the lessons of 9/11. Let`s make an analogy: In 1831, African-American slave Nat Turner gathered some followers and began slaughtering whites, including innocent children. Was Turner a terrorist? Of course: his &#8220;justice&#8221; was wanton. Still, any reasonable person would see Turner`s terrorism as a function of the institutionalized violence of slavery. And if you want to stop further Nat Turners, being harsher with the enslaved won`t help. You need to abolish slavery.</p>
<p>Today, most Americans are in denial about our foreign policy, preferring a fantasy world of faulty World War II analogies, where we always fight for noble &#8220;freedom&#8221; and in defense of homeland. In fact, we run an empire. We wouldn`t tolerate another nation`s military on our soil, yet our over 700 military bases circle the globe. With other Western nations, we also dominate underdeveloped nations politically and economically. We have in effect created an international plantation where billions are born into debt to Western bankers and remain so their entire lives. For an insider`s account of how this international &#8220;plantation&#8221; operates, see John Perkins` Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.</p>
<p>No one likes being on the receiving end of empire; if you dominate, humiliate and exploit another person or nation, they will hate you, and want to hurt you. As President Carter`s former national security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski pointed out, our modern Nat Turner, Osama bin Laden, became violently anti-American due to the construction of U.S. military bases in his native Saudi Arabia. So, it`s not so much that these anti-American terrorists want to conquer us as it is that they want us to stop conquering them.</p>
<p>As the great abolitionist Frederick Douglass pointed out, slave masters never slept well, fearing slave violence. So, if we want to stop anti-American terrorism, let`s end American empire. Let`s abolish our master-servant relationship with the majority of humanity; let us free our slaves.</p>
<p>PAUL DOUGAN </i></p>
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		<title>On going to college</title>
		<link>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/08/13/on-going-to-college/</link>
		<comments>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/08/13/on-going-to-college/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Shnelvar</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[college grade inflation]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/08/13/on-going-to-college/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Back in the early 1970&#8217;s, I had worked on this very same issue: Is a college education worth getting? I was a programmer working with an econometrician trying to decide this.
In fact, Milton Friedman reported (incorrectly) that a college education was NOT worth the investment in forgone income plus the huge additional cost. The reason [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the early 1970&#8217;s, I had worked on this very same issue: Is a college education worth getting? I was a programmer working with an econometrician trying to decide this.</p>
<p>In fact, Milton Friedman reported (incorrectly) that a college education was NOT worth the investment in forgone income plus the huge additional cost. The reason he had reported it incorrectly was that one of his programmers had messed up the programming of his model. Friedman did make an apology to the economics community about the error. (It wasn&#8217;t my error. I was working for someone else.)</p>
<p>I have not paid any attention to the issue in at least 30 years but &#8230;</p>
<p>It surely seems that young people are acting rationally. The cost of the education has gone up and the value has gone down.</p>
<p>With the dumbing down of America (and it is not only happening here, but, anecdotally it seems worse here), the universities have to take in ill-prepared students and do remedial math, etc. This raises the cost to everyone. It&#8217;s cost-shifting from high school to colleges.</p>
<p>Then, of course, there is the issue of grade inflation across the entire spectrum of our educational system. For some fascinating reading on (gasp!) actual data: www.gradeinflation.com/</p>
<p>The quality of college educations seems (again, anecdotally) to have gone down, too. Which means that the value of that piece of paper has gone down because it no longer guarantees much of anything.</p>
<p>Why incur huge debt when, after you get out, you have a good chance of earning a whopping $15/hour on which you will be paying fairly heavy taxes and a huge debt, too.</p>
<p>So, what&#8217;s at least a partial answer? Perhaps schools should return to ranking. &#8220;This student ranked 97th out of 200 graduates&#8221; so that employers have some sense of the quality of the person they are buying.</p>
<p>And with marginal tax rates on higher income (&#8221;I&#8217;ll only tax those making more that $250K/year&#8221;) the value of an education goes down even farther.</p>
<p>I wonder if Milton Friedman&#8217;s econometric model were rerun today if the answer would be different. I suspect it would be.</p>
<p>The market has spoken: At an individual level and a societal level, as currently structured, a college education and beyond probably just ain&#8217;t worth it.</p>
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		<title>Photovoltaics</title>
		<link>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/04/30/11/</link>
		<comments>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/04/30/11/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Shnelvar</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Libertarianism]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/?p=11</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just because it looks green does not make it so.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/apr/30/30elet/</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px"><em>Photovoltaic arrays for energy efficiency</em></p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px">I was inspired by the photo in the paper (April 16) about the extensive 98-kilowatt photovoltaic (PV) solar system installed by SolSource of Denver on the roof of Blue Mountain Arts. When I think of all the acres of flat rooftops available in Boulder, imagine how much renewable energy we could produce if we placed photovoltaics on nonresidential rooftops throughout the city.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px">It&#8217;s estimated that for every acre of rooftop, we can generate as much as 0.7 megawatts of electrical power and supply energy to anywhere from 72 to 200 homes per year (depending on the system). Tapping into unused real estate on top of city buildings to generate renewable energy makes sense instead of covering up our open space with solar arrays (land, which we could better use for growing food). Urban rooftop solar systems will also help cool buildings further increasing the structure&#8217;s energy use. In the SolSource installation, the PV panels kept the roof intact and will prevent over 257,000 pounds of CO2 carbon emissions from entering the atmosphere every year.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px">By using the roofs of Boulder&#8217;s big box stores, city recreation centers, manufacturing plants and large office and municipal buildings for PV arrays, we can create local electrical generation centers across Boulder and make a noticeable dent in reducing our use of fossil fuels for energy production. Given the combined and unprecedented challenges of climate change and peak oil, Boulder&#8217;s citizens are increasingly aware that we need to transition as quickly as possible to renewable energy sources.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px">Boulder, we have the talent and knowledge to reduce our city&#8217;s contribution to global warming and be a leader nationwide for innovative environmental ideas. Let&#8217;s make rooftop PV arrays on nonresidential rooftops a long-term sustainable solution that one day, when we look back, we&#8217;ll say &#8220;well done!&#8221;</p>
<p style="padding-left: 60px">
<p style="padding-left: 60px">
<p>To which I replied</p>
<div id="c323188" class="comment">
<p class="comment-info">Posted by <strong>RalphShnelvar</strong> on April 30, 2009 at 2:44 a.m.</p>
<p>NESHAMA ABRAHAM: &#8220;Boulder, we have the talent and knowledge to reduce our city&#8217;s contribution to global warming and be a leader nationwide for innovative environmental ideas. Let&#8217;s make rooftop PV arrays on nonresidential rooftops a long-term sustainable solution that one day, when we look back, we&#8217;ll say &#8216;well done!&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>One good rule of thumb measure for how much energy something consumes to make is how much it costs.</p>
<p>Assuming that you think that CO2 is the evil that I think that it isn&#8217;t, and &#8230;</p>
<p>If it costs $40,000 (not some phony subsidized price) to produce enough electricity to run the average home &#8230;</p>
<p>You have to ask yourself, is it worth the carbon footprint to produce that $40,000 device compared to the carbon used to generate that same electricity for 25 years?</p>
<p>$40K is, at high market prices, 10,000 gallons of gasoline.</p>
<p>The average household in the United States uses about 8,900 kilowatt-hours of electricity each year.  (<a rel="nofollow" href="http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/BoiLu.shtml">http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/B&#8230;</a>)</p>
<p>10,000 gallons of gasoline is roughly equivalent to 366,000 kilowatt-hours. (<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.convertunits.com/from/gallon+%5BU.S.%5D+of+automotive+gasoline/to/kilowatt-hours">http://www.convertunits.com/from/gall&#8230;</a>)</p>
<p>Over the current 25-year useful life of a PV systems, the average American home would consume 222,500 kilowatt-hours. (25 x 8900).</p>
<p>Thus &#8230; a PV system costs the environment 366,000 gallons of gasoline versus 222,500 gallons for a conventional electric grid.</p>
<p>One can, of course, redo the numbers for coal or natural gas but it remains that PV is NOT a panacea.</p>
<p>Thus it costs the environment AND the economy about twice as much (in CO2 _and_ dollars) to install PV than to simply use the current grid (which, presumably, uses gasoline-equivalents).</p>
<p>Assuming that my computations are correct,<br />
NESHAMA ABRAHAM, do you want to change your mind about PV?</p>
<p>More to the point &#8230; if it is _proved_ that the carbon footprint associated with the production and installation of PV is worse than simply using the current power grid, will you change your mind?</p>
<p>Ralph Shnelvar</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>I also replied to another poster in the same day&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p>gilbysm: Go tour a PV manufacturing facility. They all have big PV arrays on the roof, which they use to power their manufacturing equipment, which means that PV panels are made using solar electricity.</p>
<p>As others have said, you simply cannot run a plant on the power produced on the roof of a building.</p>
<p>Just go to Home Depot and look at the roughly one square meter panel the sells for about $300. It produces a whopping 45 watts of power.</p>
<p>From: http://solarpowerauthority.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-solar-on-an-average-us-house/<br />
- &#8211; -<br />
<strong>A conservative value to use for a solar panel’s generating capacity is 10 watts/sq. ft. This represents a panel conversion efficiency of about 12% which is typical. That means that for every kW you need to generate, you’d need about 100 sq. ft. of solar panels.</strong></p>
<p>One kilowatt doesn&#8217;t even run a hair dryer.  Do you really think you can run an entire plant if you cover the roof?</p>
<p>And, if you were producing wind towers, wouldn&#8217;t you put a wind tower(s) on your property as an example of what you are producing?</p>
<p>gilbysm: Furthermore, equating dollars to gallons of gasoline is asinine. It&#8217;s like saying a dollar spent on Coors coal-powered beer in an aluminum can is the same as a dollar spent on an apple at the farmer&#8217;s market. Surely with all of your vast knowledge of markets and the evils of market distortion, you know that fossil fuel prices exclude the vast majority of their real costs.</p>
<p>Of course it is. That dollar that goes into the apple represents: the energy cost of the fertilizer, the harvester, the transportation. What else is involved?</p>
<p>gilbysm: Add to that the fact that PV panels generate more electric energy than the total energy used in their construction (the same cannot be said of fossil fuel plants, which merely deplete existing stocks of energy-dense material very inefficiently), and your comment makes even less sense.</p>
<p>As others have asked &#8230; please prove that. I will cite an article I wrote showing that I _did_ do the research and that PV is net energy negative: www.dailycamera.com/blogs/letters-editor-blog/2007/sep/12/shnelvar/</p>
<p>gilbysm : Just admit that you love cheaply priced fossil fuels and the privileges they afford you at the expense of everyone else, already. Your grandkids will sure love you for burning over half the fossil fuels ever created in your lifetime, so they can tell each other stories about how you wasted so many precious, non-renewable resources while they struggle to subsist on the leftovers 50 years from now.</p>
<p>gilbysm , you are not paying attention. I am delighted when there is a technology that will efficiently convert solar power to electricity in an economically reasonable way.</p>
<p>What you are doing when you promote PV _now_ is to make a bad problem worse. It is you that is spending precious nonrenewable resources in an ideological quest for clean power.</p>
<p>Just because it looks green does not make it so.</p>
<p>Ralph Shnelvar</p></div>
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		<title>Slavery</title>
		<link>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/04/23/4/</link>
		<comments>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/04/23/4/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Shnelvar</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Libertarianism]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/?p=4</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let me make this clear. If I were living in the 1860's I would be an abolitionist because I _DESPISE_ slavery.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a woman, lafayetteeast, who feels that all of my complaints about government are negative.  You can see the back and forth at</p>
<p>http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/apr/20/20elet/</p>
<p>lafayetteeast: <em>&#8220;Ralph: yes &#8230; you&#8217;ve hit your nail on the head &#8230; you despise &#8230;. you are a negativity freak &#8230; everything with you is negative &#8230; you are a person who &#8216;despises&#8217; &#8230;. rather than being creative or positive. Think if you put all that energy into positive solutions rather than simply &#8216;despising.&#8217; You spew invectives AGAINST nearly everything and everyone. You complain, complain, complain &#8230; for someone as bright as you are, I think it&#8217;s an incredibly wasted use of your considerable talents and energies.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Let me make this clear.</p>
<p>If I were living in the 1860&#8217;s I would be an abolitionist because I _DESPISE_ slavery.</p>
<p>I would be negative negative negative &#8230; and the only solution I would offer is to &#8230;</p>
<p>GASP!</p>
<p>free the slaves.</p>
<p>I despise the unnecessary and ludicrous controls placed on humans by out-of-control governments and my solution &#8212; like Chuck&#8217;s [see Chuck Wright's comments of http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/apr/20/20elet/] &#8212; is to, well, &#8230;</p>
<p>Stop the slavery. Stop the controls.</p>
<p>Free the slaves.</p>
<p>- &#8211; - -</p>
<p>If you had been living back then, lafayetteeast, would you solution be to enact laws to make the slaves more comfortable? That&#8217;s a nice positive solution.</p>
<p>Sometimes the right solution is to stop the thing that is making people miserable.</p>
<p>Just tear down the institutions of slavery.</p>
<p>Ralph Shnelvar</p>
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		<title>Older Blogs</title>
		<link>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/04/23/older-blogs/</link>
		<comments>http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/04/23/older-blogs/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Shnelvar</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shnelvar.pmpblogs.com/2009/04/23/older-blogs/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I write this, you can see my older blogs at
http://www.dailycamera.com/blogs/community-blog-ralph-shnelvar/
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I write this, you can see my older blogs at</p>
<p>http://www.dailycamera.com/blogs/community-blog-ralph-shnelvar/</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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